I have started the Book of Mormon again. One of the main themes of the Book of Mormon is mercy. The Lord is merciful unto those that he has chosen. Those that are chosen have done specific things to become highly favored of the Lord. It wasn't a random selection by the Lord. Lehi actually showed his faith by doing something that took a lot of courage: obey the Lord's command and walk out on a street corner and start preaching. The last verse of 1 Nephi 1 says,
20 And when the Jews heard these things they were angry with him; yea, even as with the prophets of old, whom they had cast out, and stoned, and slain; and they also sought his life, that they might take it away....
These were very dangerous times. The Jews didn't want to hear what a prophet had to say. Lehi put his life in the Lord's hands. Would I be able to do that?
...But behold, I, Nephi, will show unto you that the tender mercies of the Lord are over all those whom he hath chosen, because of their faith, to make them mighty even unto the power of deliverance.
Nephi states at the beginning of his book, that he wants to show the reader that this isn't a random God who just lets wickedness take its course and does nothing to protect his people. He is an active God that delivers those that put their trust in him and show by their actions that they mean it. God is merciful to those that he has chosen even if it requires that he makes the person mighty so he can be delivered from seemingly insurmountable odds.
Thursday, July 9, 2009
Wednesday, July 8, 2009
Godliness
I was reading Moroni 10:32 ,
Yea, acome unto Christ, and be bperfected in him, and cdeny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and dlove God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be eperfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.
It struck me that the first thing one does is come unto Christ, the second thing is to be perfected in him and the third is to deny yourself of all ungodliness. Perhaps as one come to rely on Christ, one realizes how far away he really is. But, that doesn't really matter since he takes up all the slack and you are perfected in him. At that point the struggle begins: denying yourself all ungodliness. This step requires that the person needs to start to grow. And this growth is difficult. All those poor character traits, bad habits and weaknesses that have made your natural man dentrites completely inflexible need to be worked on. But, we have Christ's grace to assist us. We could never do it alone. If, this wasn't true, you would have your defects. But, you still have them. They don't go away. You have tried and tried. You take the sacrament over and over again, repenting, wanting the weaknesses to depart. But they don't.
I believe that denying yourself all ungodliness has much to do with the character traits detailed by the Lord in the sermon on the mount. It is impossible for the natural man to even comprehend living precepts taught by the Lord on the mount. In fact, most of the teachings are foolishness to the natural man. Who in their right mind would turn the other cheek when verbally attacked? Its normal to call or think that someone is a fool when they do foolish things. Looking on a beautiful woman can bring obvious desires that the Lord counsel us to curtail since we might be committing adultury in our hearts. It is definitely incomprehensible to the natural man to consider the lillies of the field, how they toil not and apply the teaching in his own life. How do relax and flow through life, caring for nothing of the world, enjoying each moment? I could go on and on. Godliness, in my opinion, is the development of character traits that mirror Jesus Christ. Godliness requires the faith to desire to change deeply seated habits. The gift of charity must be bestowed on this humble follower of Christ because the attributes of charity are exactly what is needed to be able to live the sermon on the mount. You have to be long suffering to go the extra mile, you must believe all things and hope all things and endure all things to give your children good gifts rather than using compulsion to get what you want.
We can't see the results of living this new way. Since we can't see it, we don't believe that it will really work. Most of us can't even see our weaknesses since our culture teaches us over and over again that the natural man character traits are good. We fight back when when attacked. We believe we a justified and pat ourselves on the back because we verbally one the fight with the other individual. The person who has been granted repentance (Alma 13, last verse), does't see it that way. He is accutely aware that he has failed once again to hold his tongue. He feels terrible and wants to apologize yet again to his loved one for being such a jerk. When this person works out his salvation in fear and trembling or in other words, works at the weakness, relying on the grace of God - - when he gets to that place when he usually fights back, defending himself, digging into his natural man bag of tricks - - he has not desire to do it. He is calm. He isn't gritting his teeth. At this moment, this man realizes that charity has been granted and he no longer has a desire to evil. A miracle has just occurred. He knows and God knows it. This man immediately, praises God in prayer, thanking him for making his weakness a strength unto him.
He is on the road to becoming a just man and even a just man made perfect.
Yea, acome unto Christ, and be bperfected in him, and cdeny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and dlove God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be eperfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.
It struck me that the first thing one does is come unto Christ, the second thing is to be perfected in him and the third is to deny yourself of all ungodliness. Perhaps as one come to rely on Christ, one realizes how far away he really is. But, that doesn't really matter since he takes up all the slack and you are perfected in him. At that point the struggle begins: denying yourself all ungodliness. This step requires that the person needs to start to grow. And this growth is difficult. All those poor character traits, bad habits and weaknesses that have made your natural man dentrites completely inflexible need to be worked on. But, we have Christ's grace to assist us. We could never do it alone. If, this wasn't true, you would have your defects. But, you still have them. They don't go away. You have tried and tried. You take the sacrament over and over again, repenting, wanting the weaknesses to depart. But they don't.
I believe that denying yourself all ungodliness has much to do with the character traits detailed by the Lord in the sermon on the mount. It is impossible for the natural man to even comprehend living precepts taught by the Lord on the mount. In fact, most of the teachings are foolishness to the natural man. Who in their right mind would turn the other cheek when verbally attacked? Its normal to call or think that someone is a fool when they do foolish things. Looking on a beautiful woman can bring obvious desires that the Lord counsel us to curtail since we might be committing adultury in our hearts. It is definitely incomprehensible to the natural man to consider the lillies of the field, how they toil not and apply the teaching in his own life. How do relax and flow through life, caring for nothing of the world, enjoying each moment? I could go on and on. Godliness, in my opinion, is the development of character traits that mirror Jesus Christ. Godliness requires the faith to desire to change deeply seated habits. The gift of charity must be bestowed on this humble follower of Christ because the attributes of charity are exactly what is needed to be able to live the sermon on the mount. You have to be long suffering to go the extra mile, you must believe all things and hope all things and endure all things to give your children good gifts rather than using compulsion to get what you want.
We can't see the results of living this new way. Since we can't see it, we don't believe that it will really work. Most of us can't even see our weaknesses since our culture teaches us over and over again that the natural man character traits are good. We fight back when when attacked. We believe we a justified and pat ourselves on the back because we verbally one the fight with the other individual. The person who has been granted repentance (Alma 13, last verse), does't see it that way. He is accutely aware that he has failed once again to hold his tongue. He feels terrible and wants to apologize yet again to his loved one for being such a jerk. When this person works out his salvation in fear and trembling or in other words, works at the weakness, relying on the grace of God - - when he gets to that place when he usually fights back, defending himself, digging into his natural man bag of tricks - - he has not desire to do it. He is calm. He isn't gritting his teeth. At this moment, this man realizes that charity has been granted and he no longer has a desire to evil. A miracle has just occurred. He knows and God knows it. This man immediately, praises God in prayer, thanking him for making his weakness a strength unto him.
He is on the road to becoming a just man and even a just man made perfect.
Wednesday, May 27, 2009
The Gulf between Unbelief and Faith
Ether 12:4 is a beautiful verse:
Wherefore, whoso believeth in God might with surety hope for a better world, yea, even a place at the right hand of God, which hope cometh of faith, maketh an anchor to the souls of men, which would make them sure and steadfast, always abounding in good works, being led to glorify God.
It seems to me that a true believer receives from God spiritual manifestations or witnesses so that he becomes sure and steadfast. As he exercises faith, he progresses from grace to grace knowing that the course he is pursuing is good. He knows that his faith in the unseen really brings forth miracles large, small, marvelous and subtle. These experiences anchor his soul.
While the person that exercises no faith receives not such witness and remains in a state of unbelief. As his unbelief grows, he unknowingly experiences what is called the chains of hell. He believes that goodness is foolishness. He knows nothing of godliness yet thinks he knows how the world operates. But, he only knows the operations of the world from an unbelieving point of view.
My point is that there is a gulf between these two individuals. The gulf is wide and deep; two completely different ways of thinking. What's interesting is that the unbeliever may demand that there isn't any more to this life than what he sees. He thinks that since he hasn't experienced the greater things or the mysteries of Godliness that they don't exist. He has never sought. He never asked. But, he feels justified in his unbelief.
Ether 4:5-6 says, that ... Ether did prophesy great and marvelous things unto the people, which they did not believe, because they saw them not. ... faith is things which are hoped for and not seen; wherefore, dispute not because ye see not, for ye receive no witness until after the trial of your faith.
Faith defined in Book of Mormon terms, is this thing that grows and grows. It starts by a person planting a seed. As the seed begins to swell within the person he knows that that the seed is good. Why does a person who just believes the true words of another bring about this swelling? Because the person exercized a particle of faith! A little miracle occurred. The Spirit spoke to the heart of the person. He received an assurance from the preacher and when he believe the assurance, the evidence came.
The unseen world of principles, gifts and gods is so foreign to the unbeliever. Thus, the unbeliever receives no witness.
President Monson, in the last General Conference said, ... fear not. Be of good cheer. The future is as bright as your faith. Our faith will be the power that brings about great things in our future and Church's future. Dim faith will bring about a lessor future. No faith will put us in the camp of the unbeliever. Let's all grow our faith so it feels like an old glove.
Wherefore, whoso believeth in God might with surety hope for a better world, yea, even a place at the right hand of God, which hope cometh of faith, maketh an anchor to the souls of men, which would make them sure and steadfast, always abounding in good works, being led to glorify God.
It seems to me that a true believer receives from God spiritual manifestations or witnesses so that he becomes sure and steadfast. As he exercises faith, he progresses from grace to grace knowing that the course he is pursuing is good. He knows that his faith in the unseen really brings forth miracles large, small, marvelous and subtle. These experiences anchor his soul.
While the person that exercises no faith receives not such witness and remains in a state of unbelief. As his unbelief grows, he unknowingly experiences what is called the chains of hell. He believes that goodness is foolishness. He knows nothing of godliness yet thinks he knows how the world operates. But, he only knows the operations of the world from an unbelieving point of view.
My point is that there is a gulf between these two individuals. The gulf is wide and deep; two completely different ways of thinking. What's interesting is that the unbeliever may demand that there isn't any more to this life than what he sees. He thinks that since he hasn't experienced the greater things or the mysteries of Godliness that they don't exist. He has never sought. He never asked. But, he feels justified in his unbelief.
Ether 4:5-6 says, that ... Ether did prophesy great and marvelous things unto the people, which they did not believe, because they saw them not. ... faith is things which are hoped for and not seen; wherefore, dispute not because ye see not, for ye receive no witness until after the trial of your faith.
Faith defined in Book of Mormon terms, is this thing that grows and grows. It starts by a person planting a seed. As the seed begins to swell within the person he knows that that the seed is good. Why does a person who just believes the true words of another bring about this swelling? Because the person exercized a particle of faith! A little miracle occurred. The Spirit spoke to the heart of the person. He received an assurance from the preacher and when he believe the assurance, the evidence came.
The unseen world of principles, gifts and gods is so foreign to the unbeliever. Thus, the unbeliever receives no witness.
President Monson, in the last General Conference said, ... fear not. Be of good cheer. The future is as bright as your faith. Our faith will be the power that brings about great things in our future and Church's future. Dim faith will bring about a lessor future. No faith will put us in the camp of the unbeliever. Let's all grow our faith so it feels like an old glove.
Tuesday, May 19, 2009
Akish Thrawted In His Evil Designs
In Ether 8 and 9 we find a classic story of intrigue. Jared, the son of Omer, is very sad that he lost the kingdom that he usurped previously. His brothers didn't kill him because he begged for his life and promised that he would be good boy. He's a classic addict but his addiction is power. As soon as Jared gets tempted again he goes right back to his old drug.
His beautiful daughter sees his sorrow and comes up with a solution. She and her father are people of the world with no qualms to do what it takes to get power and gain. The daughter of Jared has plan. She proposes that she dance for a man named Akish. Akish is a friend of Omer the King. This must have been a special kind of dance used to attract and or seduce men. When Akish desires her to marry her, he would come to Jared to ask her hand in marriage. When this occurs, Jared would request his father's head on plate.
It all happens like clock work. But, in order to pull it off Akish, has to build a secret combination (see my secret combination essay). Akish unites all his friends and family to promise under penalty of death not to tell anyone about their secret crimes. Its just like the current hit reality show, Survivor. Akish knows he can use his friendship (trust) with king Omer to pull of the deception.
Here's where the story changes. Omer is warned of the Lord of conspiracy and is told to depart with his family into the wilderness. Jared takes back the kingdom and no blood is shed. Jared becomes the king and gives he daughter to Akish to marry.
But it doesn't stop here. Akish, who has his secret network, decides to kill Jared. Jared's head get chopped off while on his throne surrounded by people. Akish becomes the king. No mention is made of his wife, the daugher of Jared. She was either part of the plan or more likely wondering what she had done. Had she created a monster? As king, Akish starts acting paranoid. He starves and kills one of his sons. By the end of the story Akish's kingdom falls into civil war and all but thirty souls remain alive. Omer returns and takes back the kingdom.
The moral of the story is that God protects those who puts their trust in Him and permits the wicked to kill each other off. Caution should be taken in trusting people. Subterfuge should never be used to get what you want. Secret alliances are evil and put people in the ultimate bind where they must deny the righteous impulses under threat of death.
His beautiful daughter sees his sorrow and comes up with a solution. She and her father are people of the world with no qualms to do what it takes to get power and gain. The daughter of Jared has plan. She proposes that she dance for a man named Akish. Akish is a friend of Omer the King. This must have been a special kind of dance used to attract and or seduce men. When Akish desires her to marry her, he would come to Jared to ask her hand in marriage. When this occurs, Jared would request his father's head on plate.
It all happens like clock work. But, in order to pull it off Akish, has to build a secret combination (see my secret combination essay). Akish unites all his friends and family to promise under penalty of death not to tell anyone about their secret crimes. Its just like the current hit reality show, Survivor. Akish knows he can use his friendship (trust) with king Omer to pull of the deception.
Here's where the story changes. Omer is warned of the Lord of conspiracy and is told to depart with his family into the wilderness. Jared takes back the kingdom and no blood is shed. Jared becomes the king and gives he daughter to Akish to marry.
But it doesn't stop here. Akish, who has his secret network, decides to kill Jared. Jared's head get chopped off while on his throne surrounded by people. Akish becomes the king. No mention is made of his wife, the daugher of Jared. She was either part of the plan or more likely wondering what she had done. Had she created a monster? As king, Akish starts acting paranoid. He starves and kills one of his sons. By the end of the story Akish's kingdom falls into civil war and all but thirty souls remain alive. Omer returns and takes back the kingdom.
The moral of the story is that God protects those who puts their trust in Him and permits the wicked to kill each other off. Caution should be taken in trusting people. Subterfuge should never be used to get what you want. Secret alliances are evil and put people in the ultimate bind where they must deny the righteous impulses under threat of death.
Spreading the Wealth - a wicked practice?
I was reading Ether 9 today and found a verse that I have been trying find for years. The verse reminds me of what politicians do to entice it's citizens to support them as rulers. The citizens can be entice if they value money over higher principles.
Here's verse 11:
Now the people of Akish were desirous for gain, even as Akish was desirous for power; wherefore, the sons of Akish did offer them money, by which means they drew away the more part of the people after them.
So, Akish and his boys give the people money to support them as the rulers. How did Akish get the money? It had to be either taxation, extortion or mining or precious ore. If it was through taxation or extortion, then they were applying a socialist principle of redistribution of wealth.
We read in verse 12 that ... there began to be a war between the sons of Akish and Akish, which lasted for the space of many years, yea, unto the destruction of nearly all the people of the kingdom, yea, even all, save it were thirty souls, and they who fled with the house of Omer.
Apparently greed and power got the best of Akish and his sons. These summarized verses are very vague as what exactly happened. But, the end result was that the people apparently took sides and killed each other until their were only thirty souls left!
If a nation's primary focus in power and gain, the country won't last long.
Here's verse 11:
Now the people of Akish were desirous for gain, even as Akish was desirous for power; wherefore, the sons of Akish did offer them money, by which means they drew away the more part of the people after them.
So, Akish and his boys give the people money to support them as the rulers. How did Akish get the money? It had to be either taxation, extortion or mining or precious ore. If it was through taxation or extortion, then they were applying a socialist principle of redistribution of wealth.
We read in verse 12 that ... there began to be a war between the sons of Akish and Akish, which lasted for the space of many years, yea, unto the destruction of nearly all the people of the kingdom, yea, even all, save it were thirty souls, and they who fled with the house of Omer.
Apparently greed and power got the best of Akish and his sons. These summarized verses are very vague as what exactly happened. But, the end result was that the people apparently took sides and killed each other until their were only thirty souls left!
If a nation's primary focus in power and gain, the country won't last long.
Tuesday, April 28, 2009
Ether 3:13 Redeemed from the Fall
The word, redeemed is an interesting word that I want to understand better. Last week I was reading somewhere in the Book of Mormon and understood that to be redeemed means to be brought back into the presence of the Lord to be judged.
In Ether 3:13, I read "Because thou knowest these things ye are redeemed from the fall". Is this the same redemption that I read earlier or a different redemption since the Lord added 'the fall'? The Brother of Jared is brought back into the presence of the Lord just like above, but he also has been judged and found worthy to be in God's presence early - which means more than redemption. I will have to study this topic more.
In Mormon 9:13 and 14 I read that there is a redemption from endless sleep. This would be the spirit world. The eternal band of death which is a temporal death must mean dying and going to spirit world without your body. To be redeemed from the temporal death by Jesus Christ is to receive your body and be brought back into his presence. We are then judged by the Holy One and if we are still filthy, unrighteous or unhappy we will remain in that state.
So, what does it mean to be quickened to a kingdom of glory? Does Christ remove our filthiness at this time? Are we still unhappy inheriting a kingdom of glory? Is there more payment to be made after the judgment? Does the latter-day doctrine amplify the doctrine of the Book of Mormon - superceding it?
And because of the redemption of man, which came by Jesus Christ, they are brought back into the presence of the Lord; yea, this is wherein all men are redeemed, because the death of Christ bringeth to pass the resurrection, which bringeth to pass a redemption from an endless sleep, from which sleep all men shall be awakened by the power of God when the trump shall sound; and they shall come forth, both small and great, and all shall stand before his bar, being redeemed and loosed from this eternal band of death, which death is a temporal death.
14 And then cometh the judgment of the Holy One upon them; and then cometh the time that he that is filthy shall be filthy still; and he that is righteous shall be righteous still; he that is happy shall be happy still; and he that is unhappy shall be unhappy still.
In Ether 3:13, I read "Because thou knowest these things ye are redeemed from the fall". Is this the same redemption that I read earlier or a different redemption since the Lord added 'the fall'? The Brother of Jared is brought back into the presence of the Lord just like above, but he also has been judged and found worthy to be in God's presence early - which means more than redemption. I will have to study this topic more.
In Mormon 9:13 and 14 I read that there is a redemption from endless sleep. This would be the spirit world. The eternal band of death which is a temporal death must mean dying and going to spirit world without your body. To be redeemed from the temporal death by Jesus Christ is to receive your body and be brought back into his presence. We are then judged by the Holy One and if we are still filthy, unrighteous or unhappy we will remain in that state.
So, what does it mean to be quickened to a kingdom of glory? Does Christ remove our filthiness at this time? Are we still unhappy inheriting a kingdom of glory? Is there more payment to be made after the judgment? Does the latter-day doctrine amplify the doctrine of the Book of Mormon - superceding it?
And because of the redemption of man, which came by Jesus Christ, they are brought back into the presence of the Lord; yea, this is wherein all men are redeemed, because the death of Christ bringeth to pass the resurrection, which bringeth to pass a redemption from an endless sleep, from which sleep all men shall be awakened by the power of God when the trump shall sound; and they shall come forth, both small and great, and all shall stand before his bar, being redeemed and loosed from this eternal band of death, which death is a temporal death.
14 And then cometh the judgment of the Holy One upon them; and then cometh the time that he that is filthy shall be filthy still; and he that is righteous shall be righteous still; he that is happy shall be happy still; and he that is unhappy shall be unhappy still.
Tuesday, April 7, 2009
Regarding an Article on Forced Giving
Here’s some thoughts (on Walter Williams Article):
1. The rub: without the unconstitutional welfare system, America might not be as ‘good’ as we have grown up believing. Without the welfare system, would Americans have been willing to give up a portion of their wealth to help the poor – especially the undeserving poor? Knowing our Calvinistic heritage, probably not. Knowing our reverence for the dog eat dog culture (competitive, emulating and fierce), probably not. So here’s the constitutional welfare rub: Is it possible that America would have lost its blessed state faster without the implementation of a welfare system by our elected officials (apparently going beyond their constitutional powers)? Would America have fallen faster and deeper into a society of haves and have-nots? A society where the haves would drive home from work every day passing homeless hordes of people on the side of the street begging for food and shelter? Would most of the haves constantly fear being broken into by angry, disenfranchised, disillusioned have-nots that have decided to find food and money in this inappropriate way? The rub I have about going back to the constitution while most of America has deep Korihorian beliefs - which are wicked according to Mormon – is that it would be detrimental to the American way of life in ways we are unwilling to imagine or accept.
2. When the Nephites were embracing the supply-demand dog eat dog, class stratification, mocking the poor, loving money system, they were left to rely on their own strength (which was great according to the strength of a man) and no longer received the strength, protection and prosperity of the Lord.
3. Most Americans I talk to are more than willing to give voluntarily the involuntary taxes imposed upon them for better good. They are grateful to be living in a land where it’s still possible to pursue happiness. The system of helping the poor isn’t perfect but it’s still helping the poor. God blesses nations that help the poor whether or not the nation is constitutional or not. We are not worthy of our constitution. We haven’t been worthy of it for many, many years. Captain Moroni was needed in 1839 when the Mormons were expulsed from Missouri, in 1913 when the international bankers took over the country’s financial system, in 1938 when America went into receivership to the international banks and the Uniform Commercial Code was unknowingly imposed upon all Americans, when our government forcibly relocated Native Americans in 1831 (the Trail of Tears) so Americans could steal their lands. Where was our Captain Moroni? And now we awaken to our awful state and want to change it all back? We ALL still have the wicked belief systems drummed into us through our childhood and adulthood and we don’t even know what the belief system is!
4. Compare your belief system with the belief system of righteous Nephites and you will know where the contradictions lie. They are deeply rooted. But, we know they are correct and good, you exclaim! They worked for our fathers. Why can’t they work for us? Because, the Lord will not suffer that we take happiness in sin forever. We are either changing and progressing toward unity, love and compassion or we are not.
Let me know what you think. Fight my thoughts! Let’s have a real discussion.
Scott Nelson
I just read your response. I agree with your state level arguments, etc. I will give your thoughts more thought! My original email was my way of kind a stepping back and looking at the mess that has been creating and trying make sense of it. You will have to read my blog on Nephites. I was not very clear on framing my Nephite thought. My line of thought was regarding how the righteous Christian Nephite of Alma’s time period operated within the general Nephite free market system (like our American free market system with all the regulations). Political, religious and economic freedom was definitely the foundation of Nephite system and worth fighting as our constitution is worth fighting for. Mormon was decrying a belief system that was entering into the church in Alma 30. The wicked belief system is one that we Americans generally believe.
Love,
Craig's Response:
On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Craig Nelson <craignelson8@gmail.com> wrote:
Scott,Great point but I do have some comments.1. The welfare of the poor would be taken care of by one of three methods.
1st: If the federal government was following the Constitution we would not have the majority of our regulations which restrain businesses to succeed. This increase the wealth of the nation so that anyone that wanted to work could and for a wage that would be adequate to support them.2nd: With the increased wealth I believe that people would give to churches and charities. Oh wait they already do, in amounts greater then any other country in the world. And, I believe it would continue and increase.3rd: I we want the government to take care of the poor that is fine, just not the federal government. Each state can have a welfare program as they deem necessary. This would be a way for states to attract or repel people and businesses. The Constitution restrains the federal government.
2. You are absolutely correct. And if we want to force people to have "charity" [Christ like Love] toward each other then it is Constitution at the state level. I don't think it is correct, you know agency and free will, but if done correctly through laws with due process, I will go with it.3. Again most of that should be take care at the state level.4. The Constitution was designed to protect the freedom of men. To allow them to succeed or fail. To allow them to worship and believe as they want. From my understanding, the Nephites and Moroni went after those that fought against God and the Church. They didn't force people to believe but they did punish, even unto death, those that would take others freedoms away.Scott, I am sure that I am missing something and have not spent enough time researching to create a bullet proof argument but I did want to respond timely.I really enjoy these conversation. It really irritates me that as a people we ether don't talk about "religion" and "politic" or we keep them separate. The scriptures, all of them, are full of politics and government.Love,
Craig
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is a government big enough to take everything you have!"If we abide by the principles taught in the Bible, our country will go on prospering and to prosper; but if we and our posterityneglect its instruction and authority, no man can tell how sudden a catastrophe may overwhelm us and bury all our glory inprofound obscurity." (Daniel Webster)
1. The rub: without the unconstitutional welfare system, America might not be as ‘good’ as we have grown up believing. Without the welfare system, would Americans have been willing to give up a portion of their wealth to help the poor – especially the undeserving poor? Knowing our Calvinistic heritage, probably not. Knowing our reverence for the dog eat dog culture (competitive, emulating and fierce), probably not. So here’s the constitutional welfare rub: Is it possible that America would have lost its blessed state faster without the implementation of a welfare system by our elected officials (apparently going beyond their constitutional powers)? Would America have fallen faster and deeper into a society of haves and have-nots? A society where the haves would drive home from work every day passing homeless hordes of people on the side of the street begging for food and shelter? Would most of the haves constantly fear being broken into by angry, disenfranchised, disillusioned have-nots that have decided to find food and money in this inappropriate way? The rub I have about going back to the constitution while most of America has deep Korihorian beliefs - which are wicked according to Mormon – is that it would be detrimental to the American way of life in ways we are unwilling to imagine or accept.
2. When the Nephites were embracing the supply-demand dog eat dog, class stratification, mocking the poor, loving money system, they were left to rely on their own strength (which was great according to the strength of a man) and no longer received the strength, protection and prosperity of the Lord.
3. Most Americans I talk to are more than willing to give voluntarily the involuntary taxes imposed upon them for better good. They are grateful to be living in a land where it’s still possible to pursue happiness. The system of helping the poor isn’t perfect but it’s still helping the poor. God blesses nations that help the poor whether or not the nation is constitutional or not. We are not worthy of our constitution. We haven’t been worthy of it for many, many years. Captain Moroni was needed in 1839 when the Mormons were expulsed from Missouri, in 1913 when the international bankers took over the country’s financial system, in 1938 when America went into receivership to the international banks and the Uniform Commercial Code was unknowingly imposed upon all Americans, when our government forcibly relocated Native Americans in 1831 (the Trail of Tears) so Americans could steal their lands. Where was our Captain Moroni? And now we awaken to our awful state and want to change it all back? We ALL still have the wicked belief systems drummed into us through our childhood and adulthood and we don’t even know what the belief system is!
4. Compare your belief system with the belief system of righteous Nephites and you will know where the contradictions lie. They are deeply rooted. But, we know they are correct and good, you exclaim! They worked for our fathers. Why can’t they work for us? Because, the Lord will not suffer that we take happiness in sin forever. We are either changing and progressing toward unity, love and compassion or we are not.
Let me know what you think. Fight my thoughts! Let’s have a real discussion.
Scott Nelson
I just read your response. I agree with your state level arguments, etc. I will give your thoughts more thought! My original email was my way of kind a stepping back and looking at the mess that has been creating and trying make sense of it. You will have to read my blog on Nephites. I was not very clear on framing my Nephite thought. My line of thought was regarding how the righteous Christian Nephite of Alma’s time period operated within the general Nephite free market system (like our American free market system with all the regulations). Political, religious and economic freedom was definitely the foundation of Nephite system and worth fighting as our constitution is worth fighting for. Mormon was decrying a belief system that was entering into the church in Alma 30. The wicked belief system is one that we Americans generally believe.
Love,
Craig's Response:
On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Craig Nelson <craignelson8@gmail.com> wrote:
Scott,Great point but I do have some comments.1. The welfare of the poor would be taken care of by one of three methods.
1st: If the federal government was following the Constitution we would not have the majority of our regulations which restrain businesses to succeed. This increase the wealth of the nation so that anyone that wanted to work could and for a wage that would be adequate to support them.2nd: With the increased wealth I believe that people would give to churches and charities. Oh wait they already do, in amounts greater then any other country in the world. And, I believe it would continue and increase.3rd: I we want the government to take care of the poor that is fine, just not the federal government. Each state can have a welfare program as they deem necessary. This would be a way for states to attract or repel people and businesses. The Constitution restrains the federal government.
2. You are absolutely correct. And if we want to force people to have "charity" [Christ like Love] toward each other then it is Constitution at the state level. I don't think it is correct, you know agency and free will, but if done correctly through laws with due process, I will go with it.3. Again most of that should be take care at the state level.4. The Constitution was designed to protect the freedom of men. To allow them to succeed or fail. To allow them to worship and believe as they want. From my understanding, the Nephites and Moroni went after those that fought against God and the Church. They didn't force people to believe but they did punish, even unto death, those that would take others freedoms away.Scott, I am sure that I am missing something and have not spent enough time researching to create a bullet proof argument but I did want to respond timely.I really enjoy these conversation. It really irritates me that as a people we ether don't talk about "religion" and "politic" or we keep them separate. The scriptures, all of them, are full of politics and government.Love,
Craig
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is a government big enough to take everything you have!"If we abide by the principles taught in the Bible, our country will go on prospering and to prosper; but if we and our posterityneglect its instruction and authority, no man can tell how sudden a catastrophe may overwhelm us and bury all our glory inprofound obscurity." (Daniel Webster)
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