The word, redeemed is an interesting word that I want to understand better. Last week I was reading somewhere in the Book of Mormon and understood that to be redeemed means to be brought back into the presence of the Lord to be judged.
In Ether 3:13, I read "Because thou knowest these things ye are redeemed from the fall". Is this the same redemption that I read earlier or a different redemption since the Lord added 'the fall'? The Brother of Jared is brought back into the presence of the Lord just like above, but he also has been judged and found worthy to be in God's presence early - which means more than redemption. I will have to study this topic more.
In Mormon 9:13 and 14 I read that there is a redemption from endless sleep. This would be the spirit world. The eternal band of death which is a temporal death must mean dying and going to spirit world without your body. To be redeemed from the temporal death by Jesus Christ is to receive your body and be brought back into his presence. We are then judged by the Holy One and if we are still filthy, unrighteous or unhappy we will remain in that state.
So, what does it mean to be quickened to a kingdom of glory? Does Christ remove our filthiness at this time? Are we still unhappy inheriting a kingdom of glory? Is there more payment to be made after the judgment? Does the latter-day doctrine amplify the doctrine of the Book of Mormon - superceding it?
And because of the redemption of man, which came by Jesus Christ, they are brought back into the presence of the Lord; yea, this is wherein all men are redeemed, because the death of Christ bringeth to pass the resurrection, which bringeth to pass a redemption from an endless sleep, from which sleep all men shall be awakened by the power of God when the trump shall sound; and they shall come forth, both small and great, and all shall stand before his bar, being redeemed and loosed from this eternal band of death, which death is a temporal death.
14 And then cometh the judgment of the Holy One upon them; and then cometh the time that he that is filthy shall be filthy still; and he that is righteous shall be righteous still; he that is happy shall be happy still; and he that is unhappy shall be unhappy still.
Tuesday, April 28, 2009
Tuesday, April 7, 2009
Regarding an Article on Forced Giving
Here’s some thoughts (on Walter Williams Article):
1. The rub: without the unconstitutional welfare system, America might not be as ‘good’ as we have grown up believing. Without the welfare system, would Americans have been willing to give up a portion of their wealth to help the poor – especially the undeserving poor? Knowing our Calvinistic heritage, probably not. Knowing our reverence for the dog eat dog culture (competitive, emulating and fierce), probably not. So here’s the constitutional welfare rub: Is it possible that America would have lost its blessed state faster without the implementation of a welfare system by our elected officials (apparently going beyond their constitutional powers)? Would America have fallen faster and deeper into a society of haves and have-nots? A society where the haves would drive home from work every day passing homeless hordes of people on the side of the street begging for food and shelter? Would most of the haves constantly fear being broken into by angry, disenfranchised, disillusioned have-nots that have decided to find food and money in this inappropriate way? The rub I have about going back to the constitution while most of America has deep Korihorian beliefs - which are wicked according to Mormon – is that it would be detrimental to the American way of life in ways we are unwilling to imagine or accept.
2. When the Nephites were embracing the supply-demand dog eat dog, class stratification, mocking the poor, loving money system, they were left to rely on their own strength (which was great according to the strength of a man) and no longer received the strength, protection and prosperity of the Lord.
3. Most Americans I talk to are more than willing to give voluntarily the involuntary taxes imposed upon them for better good. They are grateful to be living in a land where it’s still possible to pursue happiness. The system of helping the poor isn’t perfect but it’s still helping the poor. God blesses nations that help the poor whether or not the nation is constitutional or not. We are not worthy of our constitution. We haven’t been worthy of it for many, many years. Captain Moroni was needed in 1839 when the Mormons were expulsed from Missouri, in 1913 when the international bankers took over the country’s financial system, in 1938 when America went into receivership to the international banks and the Uniform Commercial Code was unknowingly imposed upon all Americans, when our government forcibly relocated Native Americans in 1831 (the Trail of Tears) so Americans could steal their lands. Where was our Captain Moroni? And now we awaken to our awful state and want to change it all back? We ALL still have the wicked belief systems drummed into us through our childhood and adulthood and we don’t even know what the belief system is!
4. Compare your belief system with the belief system of righteous Nephites and you will know where the contradictions lie. They are deeply rooted. But, we know they are correct and good, you exclaim! They worked for our fathers. Why can’t they work for us? Because, the Lord will not suffer that we take happiness in sin forever. We are either changing and progressing toward unity, love and compassion or we are not.
Let me know what you think. Fight my thoughts! Let’s have a real discussion.
Scott Nelson
I just read your response. I agree with your state level arguments, etc. I will give your thoughts more thought! My original email was my way of kind a stepping back and looking at the mess that has been creating and trying make sense of it. You will have to read my blog on Nephites. I was not very clear on framing my Nephite thought. My line of thought was regarding how the righteous Christian Nephite of Alma’s time period operated within the general Nephite free market system (like our American free market system with all the regulations). Political, religious and economic freedom was definitely the foundation of Nephite system and worth fighting as our constitution is worth fighting for. Mormon was decrying a belief system that was entering into the church in Alma 30. The wicked belief system is one that we Americans generally believe.
Love,
Craig's Response:
On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Craig Nelson <craignelson8@gmail.com> wrote:
Scott,Great point but I do have some comments.1. The welfare of the poor would be taken care of by one of three methods.
1st: If the federal government was following the Constitution we would not have the majority of our regulations which restrain businesses to succeed. This increase the wealth of the nation so that anyone that wanted to work could and for a wage that would be adequate to support them.2nd: With the increased wealth I believe that people would give to churches and charities. Oh wait they already do, in amounts greater then any other country in the world. And, I believe it would continue and increase.3rd: I we want the government to take care of the poor that is fine, just not the federal government. Each state can have a welfare program as they deem necessary. This would be a way for states to attract or repel people and businesses. The Constitution restrains the federal government.
2. You are absolutely correct. And if we want to force people to have "charity" [Christ like Love] toward each other then it is Constitution at the state level. I don't think it is correct, you know agency and free will, but if done correctly through laws with due process, I will go with it.3. Again most of that should be take care at the state level.4. The Constitution was designed to protect the freedom of men. To allow them to succeed or fail. To allow them to worship and believe as they want. From my understanding, the Nephites and Moroni went after those that fought against God and the Church. They didn't force people to believe but they did punish, even unto death, those that would take others freedoms away.Scott, I am sure that I am missing something and have not spent enough time researching to create a bullet proof argument but I did want to respond timely.I really enjoy these conversation. It really irritates me that as a people we ether don't talk about "religion" and "politic" or we keep them separate. The scriptures, all of them, are full of politics and government.Love,
Craig
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is a government big enough to take everything you have!"If we abide by the principles taught in the Bible, our country will go on prospering and to prosper; but if we and our posterityneglect its instruction and authority, no man can tell how sudden a catastrophe may overwhelm us and bury all our glory inprofound obscurity." (Daniel Webster)
1. The rub: without the unconstitutional welfare system, America might not be as ‘good’ as we have grown up believing. Without the welfare system, would Americans have been willing to give up a portion of their wealth to help the poor – especially the undeserving poor? Knowing our Calvinistic heritage, probably not. Knowing our reverence for the dog eat dog culture (competitive, emulating and fierce), probably not. So here’s the constitutional welfare rub: Is it possible that America would have lost its blessed state faster without the implementation of a welfare system by our elected officials (apparently going beyond their constitutional powers)? Would America have fallen faster and deeper into a society of haves and have-nots? A society where the haves would drive home from work every day passing homeless hordes of people on the side of the street begging for food and shelter? Would most of the haves constantly fear being broken into by angry, disenfranchised, disillusioned have-nots that have decided to find food and money in this inappropriate way? The rub I have about going back to the constitution while most of America has deep Korihorian beliefs - which are wicked according to Mormon – is that it would be detrimental to the American way of life in ways we are unwilling to imagine or accept.
2. When the Nephites were embracing the supply-demand dog eat dog, class stratification, mocking the poor, loving money system, they were left to rely on their own strength (which was great according to the strength of a man) and no longer received the strength, protection and prosperity of the Lord.
3. Most Americans I talk to are more than willing to give voluntarily the involuntary taxes imposed upon them for better good. They are grateful to be living in a land where it’s still possible to pursue happiness. The system of helping the poor isn’t perfect but it’s still helping the poor. God blesses nations that help the poor whether or not the nation is constitutional or not. We are not worthy of our constitution. We haven’t been worthy of it for many, many years. Captain Moroni was needed in 1839 when the Mormons were expulsed from Missouri, in 1913 when the international bankers took over the country’s financial system, in 1938 when America went into receivership to the international banks and the Uniform Commercial Code was unknowingly imposed upon all Americans, when our government forcibly relocated Native Americans in 1831 (the Trail of Tears) so Americans could steal their lands. Where was our Captain Moroni? And now we awaken to our awful state and want to change it all back? We ALL still have the wicked belief systems drummed into us through our childhood and adulthood and we don’t even know what the belief system is!
4. Compare your belief system with the belief system of righteous Nephites and you will know where the contradictions lie. They are deeply rooted. But, we know they are correct and good, you exclaim! They worked for our fathers. Why can’t they work for us? Because, the Lord will not suffer that we take happiness in sin forever. We are either changing and progressing toward unity, love and compassion or we are not.
Let me know what you think. Fight my thoughts! Let’s have a real discussion.
Scott Nelson
I just read your response. I agree with your state level arguments, etc. I will give your thoughts more thought! My original email was my way of kind a stepping back and looking at the mess that has been creating and trying make sense of it. You will have to read my blog on Nephites. I was not very clear on framing my Nephite thought. My line of thought was regarding how the righteous Christian Nephite of Alma’s time period operated within the general Nephite free market system (like our American free market system with all the regulations). Political, religious and economic freedom was definitely the foundation of Nephite system and worth fighting as our constitution is worth fighting for. Mormon was decrying a belief system that was entering into the church in Alma 30. The wicked belief system is one that we Americans generally believe.
Love,
Craig's Response:
On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Craig Nelson <craignelson8@gmail.com> wrote:
Scott,Great point but I do have some comments.1. The welfare of the poor would be taken care of by one of three methods.
1st: If the federal government was following the Constitution we would not have the majority of our regulations which restrain businesses to succeed. This increase the wealth of the nation so that anyone that wanted to work could and for a wage that would be adequate to support them.2nd: With the increased wealth I believe that people would give to churches and charities. Oh wait they already do, in amounts greater then any other country in the world. And, I believe it would continue and increase.3rd: I we want the government to take care of the poor that is fine, just not the federal government. Each state can have a welfare program as they deem necessary. This would be a way for states to attract or repel people and businesses. The Constitution restrains the federal government.
2. You are absolutely correct. And if we want to force people to have "charity" [Christ like Love] toward each other then it is Constitution at the state level. I don't think it is correct, you know agency and free will, but if done correctly through laws with due process, I will go with it.3. Again most of that should be take care at the state level.4. The Constitution was designed to protect the freedom of men. To allow them to succeed or fail. To allow them to worship and believe as they want. From my understanding, the Nephites and Moroni went after those that fought against God and the Church. They didn't force people to believe but they did punish, even unto death, those that would take others freedoms away.Scott, I am sure that I am missing something and have not spent enough time researching to create a bullet proof argument but I did want to respond timely.I really enjoy these conversation. It really irritates me that as a people we ether don't talk about "religion" and "politic" or we keep them separate. The scriptures, all of them, are full of politics and government.Love,
Craig
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is a government big enough to take everything you have!"If we abide by the principles taught in the Bible, our country will go on prospering and to prosper; but if we and our posterityneglect its instruction and authority, no man can tell how sudden a catastrophe may overwhelm us and bury all our glory inprofound obscurity." (Daniel Webster)
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